Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

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For everybody with mouse lag, please choose you system components?

AMD CPU
0
No votes
Intel CPU
4
27%
AMD graphics
2
13%
Nvidia graphics
4
27%
Intel graphics
0
No votes
Windows XP
2
13%
Windows Vista
0
No votes
Windows 7
3
20%
Windows 8
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 15

phooma79
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Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

Post by phooma79 »

When I use xpadder I can notice a constant stuttering with camera assigned on analog pad emulating mouse.
This problem is very evident when moving the stick very slightly, it delivers me the impression of something like 5fps.
Otherwise if I push the stick further, the movement is more fluid but not perfect.
It seems to me like the way the mouse is emulated is causing this issue that I can notice also with the windows pointer.
Maybe there are setting tweaks I'm missing but I would like it to be improved/fixed if it could be possible.
By now for my experience playing with xpadder is a framerate destroyer.

Alyx
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Re: Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

Post by Alyx »

I know what you refer to. I've found that it becomes most noticeable when I crank up the mouse speed in Xpadder. You may be able to minimize the effect if you turn down the emulated mouse speed in Xpadder and then compensate by turning up mouse speed via the in-game menus of the game you're trying to play. Does that help?

gamerpedro
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Re: Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

Post by gamerpedro »

I'm experiencing the same issue.

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Re: Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

Post by Jonathan »

Does this problem only occur in games? What about moving the mouse around the desktop?

Alyx
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Re: Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

Post by Alyx »

It occurs on the desktop.I think it's simply caused by the mouse emulation, when set fast enough, moving the cursor too far each frame. If you then move the cursor across the desktop you can observe it moving in evenly spaced and timed skips instead of smoothly. This manifests as jerky turning in first-person games.

Maybe some kind of optional(?) interpolation scheme could smooth it out?

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Re: Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

Post by Jonathan »

What are the dimensions of your desktop and what mouse speed setting value is needed before the mouse starts skipping?

Alyx
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Re: Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

Post by Alyx »

1920x1080 at 60 Hz, and 10 or so is the last Xpadder mouse speed setting that seems to pass over every pixel when then the analog stick is fully tilted. At 12 it starts to skip a little.

Note that this doesn't necessarily mean a first-person game camera would exhibit jerkiness at this Xpadder speed setting. It may take a higher setting before it starts to make game camera movement look jerky, and judging from my limited testing that point probably depends on the game, the game's internal mouse sensitivity settings, and possibly other factors (Windows mouse sensitivity setting?).

I imagine that if I had a 120 Hz monitor, higher Xpadder settings would still appear smooth on the desktop. I understand that if a screen only updates a modest (60) number of times per second and a moving object has to move from point A to point B within a limited timeframe then beyond a certain speed level the object can't be drawn at every possible position on the path from A to B. Which is fine, there's not really any getting around that. What is a bother is when this movement phenomenon affects the camera viewpoint in a game. Perhaps the way Xpadder sends emulated mouse input to games can be altered to better account for this (meaning make it more like real mouse input, which generally doesn't have this stutter problem).

Hope I'm making sense.

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Re: Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

Post by Jonathan »

It appears to be working fine for me. I'll explain how Xpadder emulates the mouse and maybe it will help us understand why this problem is happening.
Xpadder runs as 100Hz. This means that Xpadder is moving the mouse at most 100 times a second. Xpadder is also running in real-time mode so regardless of what else your PC is doing this update speed should be the same.
In the Mouse Settings window there is test image of a house (to help select inverted Y options). Below this is a status box with various values. The number in brackets shows the current speed of the mouse in PixelsPerSecond.
So if this value is 100pps this means that every 1/100th of a second Xpadder is moving the mouse exactly 1 pixel. If the value is 200pps then every 1/100th of a second Xpadder moves the mouse exactly 2 pixels. If it is 150pps then Xpadder moves the mouse 1.5 pixels, keeps track of the decimal point and rounds the value. This would appear as moving the mouse 1 pixel, then 2 pixels, then 1, then 2, etc.
Once the speed is high enough the amount of movement will make the mouse skip a number of pixels but as Xpadder always runs at 100Hz the mouse will seemingly skip very fast to the far edge of the screen. There won't be time for the mouse to visually skip.

At 1280x800, 60Hz, stick 100% to the left or right, mouse speed at 12 it appears smooth, takes about 8 seconds to cross the screen.

I wonder if this issue is machine-specific. Depending on your mouse speed and resolution Xpadder's attempts to update the mouse via its driver faster or slower than the physical mouse would which causes the stutter. Game also read the mouse and different intervals which can cause problems. Other posts on this topic usually have the suggestion of lowering the mouse speed in game and turning Xpadder's speed up. The reverse would imply that the game is too fast for Xpadder so this would mean Xpadder is too fast for the game?! I am now confused.

If you lowered the mouse speed in Windows and increased Xpadder mouse speed to 24 does this fix this skipping?

Alyx
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Re: Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

Post by Alyx »

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I'm sure I don't understand the inner workings perfectly but it's helpful to have the curtain pulled aside.

In case it's helpful, I use a Microsoft Sidewinder X5 mouse with the standard MS driver in Win7 x64. Driver sensitivity is the 5th notch from the highest, no enhanced pointer precision (acceleration).

After I made my last post it occurred to me that the best modern USB gaming mice poll 1000 times a second, and I bet Xpadder polls less often. 1/10 as often, then? I wouldn't be surprised if that is at least part of the problem here. Is the 100Hz thing a hard-to-change part of Xpadder's architecture or would it be possible to make that polling rate user defineable (or at least higher)? It would be interesting to see if raising that value resulted in different mouse characteristics.

(Another random thought: Might it be relevant that Xpadder's polling speed is not evenly divisible by the typical user's 60Hz refresh rate? For example, if Xpadder polled at 120Hz instead the Xpadder/display update ratio would become a nice, neat 2:1.)

To answer your last question, yes. Windows mouse speed seems to be a factor in Xpadder mouse movement smoothness. I just played around with various mouse sensitivity settings in Windows, Xpadder, and ZDoom but have not been able to figure out why some settings rotate the ZDoom viewpoint smoothly and some seem to have some chop.

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Re: Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

Post by Jonathan »

The 100Hz speed is built into Xpadder since 2007. At the time my testing showed it to be the best speed in-game (although that test was performed only on my PC, with one game, and with my perception of smoothness). I've never thought about an option to alter that value. The mouse speed system is about as old as well and closely linked to 100Hz.
What I'm wondering though is if the monitor is 60Hz this means the most unique fps you'll see is 60 so polling the mouse 60 times or 6000 times a second won't result in anything visually different.
This issue might not even be anything to do with the monitor - it could be Xpadder not working as designed.
I'm curious to know exactly how often Xpadder is moving your mouse so here's a little program to figure that out
Set the mouse to the stick and move it around fast in a circle. You could also try your real mouse for a comparison.
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Alyx
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Re: Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

Post by Alyx »

MS Sidewinder X5, Windows sensitivity 5 notches from top w/o accel:

Code: Select all

Second:0   Moves: 365   Checks: 4,087,323
Second:1   Moves: 500   Checks: 3,992,544
Second:2   Moves: 500   Checks: 4,094,454
Second:3   Moves: 500   Checks: 3,724,786
Second:4   Moves: 500   Checks: 4,043,669
Second:5   Moves: 477   Checks: 3,863,986
Second:6   Moves: 497   Checks: 4,059,279
Second:7   Moves: 500   Checks: 4,090,099
Second:8   Moves: 498   Checks: 4,104,310
Second:9   Moves: 493   Checks: 4,093,877
Second:10   Moves: 479   Checks: 4,069,498
Xpadder with DualShock 3 (MotioninJoy) emulating Xbox 360 pad, Windows sensitivity 5 notches from top w/o accel, Xpadder X & Y mouse emulation speed 64:

Code: Select all

Second:0   Moves: 37   Checks: 4,185,636
Second:1   Moves: 99   Checks: 4,052,956
Second:2   Moves: 99   Checks: 4,015,924
Second:3   Moves: 99   Checks: 4,224,055
Second:4   Moves: 99   Checks: 4,094,207
Second:5   Moves: 99   Checks: 4,229,394
Second:6   Moves: 99   Checks: 4,179,065
Second:7   Moves: 99   Checks: 4,233,673
Second:8   Moves: 99   Checks: 4,215,308
Second:9   Moves: 100   Checks: 4,157,506
Second:10   Moves: 99   Checks: 4,232,778
As the first set shows, I believe my mouse polls at 500Hz.

Regarding 60 versus 6000, even if there are only 60 frames displayed (meaning vsync is active) doesn't a mouse driver still use input gathered between those frames to determine what movement to ultimately render? I think that is likely important to the perception of good, smooth control. Surely there are reasons why 500Hz and higher mouse polling rates are desirable even at a locked 60fps. (If you'd like a definitive answer on this, ask a professional FPS gamer; I'm sure they'd be full of interesting info on the topic.)

Also, keep in mind that many gamers run their graphics without vsync, which results in framerates higher than their display refresh rate, and some use vsync on 120Hz (and even faster) monitors. For those cases especially 100Hz may seem noticeably too slow.

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Re: Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

Post by Primal Fear »

You are right about the polling rate of your mouse.
The standard USB polling is 125Hz. With my old Logitech MX518 I have 121-124 moves per second and with my other mouse on my gaming PC it's exactly the same. So I guess the polling rate and the mouse movements per second are pretty much corresponding (well, obviously that the sense of a higher polling rate).
Xpadder has on both PC's only 60 moves per second :?:. But if Xpadder is running with 100Hz, there is something wrong for me :?.

No difference are causing the Windows mouse settings, the mouse emulation speed of Xpadder and the DPI setting of my mice. Also the performance of the PC doesn't seem to make a difference.


There are two things I wonder about:
1. Maybe your mouse is causing problems for Xpadder because of it's high polling rate. A higher polling rate means more data to process, and the mouse will of course also be handled in realtime (although that's possibly not a professional term to call that). Disconnect your mouse and test again the mouse movement with Xpadder. Does this make it in any way better?

2. You may just be usedd to this better mouse movement, so the usual feels jerky for you (I mean there is much difference between the 100Hz of Xpadder and usual mouse with 125Hz). Well actually I would be surprised if a higher polling rate would make such an difference. Do you possibly have a mouse with a usual polling rate to test this?

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Re: Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

Post by Jonathan »

Alyx, Xpadder seems to be working at around the 100Hz range for mouse movement (my original reason for the test was to ensure it was moving the mouse as often as it should be for you).

When Xpadder emulates the mouse movement what it's actually doing is moving Window's internal mouse position. The same thing happens with key emulation. Xpadder isn't telling your mouse driver the info, Xpadder is talking directly to Windows. You can remove your mouse and keyboard (Windows will lose them in the control panel) but Xpadder can still emulate a keyboard and mouse. Whereas Xpadder is dependant on a controller driver to read controllers it is completely independent of a keyboard and mouse driver. So in effect you are seeing a 100Hz mouse at work directly, not a 100Hz using a 500Hz mouse driver. There shouldn't be any conflict happening.

I agree with Primal's point 2 - is there an option to drop your mouse sensitivity down so you can see a slower mouse at work to compare to Xpadder?

Alyx
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Re: Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

Post by Alyx »

Thank you for the info re: Xpadder's workings. I'm not sure I suggested there was a conflict between the real mouse and Xpadder. What I do notice is that Windows mouse sensitivity absolutely affects Xpadder's mouse cursor speed. Given the info in your most recent reply, I guess that is because that sensitivity setting affects all "mice" in Windows.

Did you consider the final two paragraphs of my previous post? I think they are relevant/worth considering.

Regarding Primal's second point, let's assume that it is true that some users are used to higher mouse polling rates, making Xpadder seem deficient by comparison. In my opinion that is not a reason to refrain from, barring undue difficulty, improving Xpadder's mouse emulation such that those users become satisfied with its smoothness.

It may take me a while (I don't do it often), but perhaps a video capture is called for. Hopefully it could illustrate that the jerky movement issue the OP started this thread over is more severe than just owners of modern high-Hz mice having too-high expectations for Xpadder's mouse smoothness. I really don't think I was being terribly picky when I noticed this problem in several games.

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Re: Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

Post by Primal Fear »

First I would like to mention the reason for my problem with the less mouse moves per second.
This one:
I wrote:Xpadder has on both PC's only 60 moves per second :?:. But if Xpadder is running with 100Hz, there is something wrong for me :?.
The reason for it is the idle clock of AMD CPU's of only 1GHz . When the CPU load is higher (which results of course in an higher the CPU clock), the mouse moves per second are 100 as intended. Sadly there is an even worse problem with that, every time configuration (Hold and Release Zones, Tap Times, Pauses) is longer than intended, with the CPU on idle clock.
As far as I know Intel CPU's go only down to up to 1.6GHz, so they probably don't have this problem at all.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Back to topic:
The mouse settings affect the mouse emulation of Xpadder, that's right (and just in case you think I denied that, the whole part of "No difference are causing" in my last post is for the mouse moves per second that Jonathan's tool measures and it was more only a remark).
Alyx wrote:Regarding 60 versus 6000, even if there are only 60 frames displayed (meaning vsync is active)...
...
Also, keep in mind that many gamers run their graphics without vsync, which results in framerates higher than their display refresh rate, and some use vsync on 120Hz (and even faster) monitors. For those cases especially 100Hz may seem noticeably too slow.
Actually with 60Hz there will be always 60 frames per second displayed, no matter of the frame rate (or Vsync). If the graphics card delivers less frames, the monitor will show some frames more than once which also means no update for the mouse. If there are more frames, the monitor will only show 60 of them and ignore the others as it isn't able to show more. But I agree with you that the 100Hz of Xpadder could result in visible mouse lags if you use a 120Hz monitor and have full 120FPS. But neither you nor us use such a screen, so it obviously doesn't explain your problem.
Alyx wrote:Surely there are reasons why 500Hz and higher mouse polling rates are desirable even at a locked 60fps.
Well, do you know what I think about that? It's another selling point for overpriced mice. Like 8400DPI lasers sensors, although optical sensors with lower resolution are known to work more precisely. I mean the most companies advertise the benefit of higher polling rates with lower reaction times, but the 6 (500Hz) or 7 (1000Hz) milliseconds are negligible if you only think about your ping while playing online and human response time which is in the very best case a whole second. Absolutely nobody can see a delay when starting to move a standard mouse with 125hz.
Alyx wrote:Regarding Primal's second point, let's assume that it is true that some users are used to higher mouse polling rates,...
I don't want to be rude, but everybody can make assumptions and they doesn't help.
My question was if you have another mouse with standard polling rate (possibly the one you had before). I BTW already know that the polling rate of your mouse cannot be changed, so you don't need to look for that.
Alyx wrote:...perhaps a video capture is called for. Hopefully it could illustrate that the jerky movement issue the OP started this thread over is more severe than just owners of modern high-Hz mice having too-high expectations for Xpadder's mouse smoothness.
There are some problem with videos:
1.You need to record them with full 60Hz and full screen resolution, other the mouse movement would anyways look massively jerky.
2.The capture method could still affect how fluid the video looks.
3.You shouldn't upload it to Youtube, as it renders all videos down to 30 frames per second.

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Re: Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

Post by Jonathan »

This is interesting and more research in this area is a good idea.
Here is v2 of the MouseMove tool.
I've added response time so we can see how accurately Xpadder is timing the delays between each simulated mouse movement. It may be doing 100 per second but how cleanly is it doing it? My mouse is doing 129hz with an average response of 7ms (range 6 to 8). This is good.

Alyx, please can you return your mouse speed setting in Windows to the default prior to testing Xpadder with this new MouseMove. What I'm looking for is the response times when you see the mouse skipping via Xpadder emulation.

Primal, please can you try this tool while idle and also non-idle.
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Re: Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

Post by Primal Fear »

idle clock: Show
Sec Checks Moves ResponseAvg(range)
=====================================
4 4279408 64 15 (15 >16 )
5 4281055 64 15 (15 >16 )
6 4251342 64 15 (15 >16 )
7 4280435 64 15 (15 >16 )
8 4284716 64 15 (15 >16 )
9 4285114 64 15 (15 >16 )
10 4274934 64 15 (15 >16 )
11 4302546 49 15 (15 >16 )
And btw, I was wrong about the idle clock of my CPU. It was 1000MHz on my old one, but it is only 800MHz on my current CPU.
load clock: Show
Sec Checks Moves ResponseAvg(range)
=====================================
2 3920241 100 9 (4 >16 )
3 3916653 100 9 (4 >16 )
4 3916062 100 9 (4 >16 )
5 3893236 100 9 (4 >16 )
6 3888982 100 9 (4 >16 )
7 3913326 100 9 (4 >16 )
8 3925810 100 9 (4 >16 )
9 3962388 75 9 (4 >16 )

I have theory what the problem is. Basically it is:
Alyx wrote:(Another random thought: Might it be relevant that Xpadder's polling speed is not evenly divisible by the typical user's 60Hz refresh rate? For example, if Xpadder polled at 120Hz instead the Xpadder/display update ratio would become a nice, neat 2:1.)
That would cause that there is with Xpadder between some frames are two mouse movements and between others only one. Of course two mouse movements with the same speed are twice as long as only one movement and this is causing that the mouse movement per frame gets uneven.
When I watch mouse measurement tool, I see that the mouse movement gets different when I reaches 80 or more movements per second (as already mentioned this doesn't happen for me when the CPU is in idle state, so this failure of Xpadder actually prevents this issue too).
It seems that a small deviation from a multiplier of the screen refresh rate (so 60*1=60 or 60*2=120) doesn't cause any trouble as these irregularities do occur only rarely. But it definitely gets visible when the deviation is more than around 20, so between 80 and 100 mouse movements.

I wouldn't say that these irregularities are that bad for me. But perhaps a high pixel density, so a small screen (let's say less than 26") with a HD resolution could probably make it worse. Especially visible if the user is sitting rather close in front of it, so unlike on a TV.

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Re: Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

Post by Jonathan »

This makes sense and should be easy to test but first I want to remove the possibility of Xpadder unevenly timing intervals so here is v3.
This has graphs :shock:
The one we're interested in is the top one. Moving the mouse via Xpadder from the far-left of the screen to the far-right (in a straight line) should create a graph that is very flat. If it is jagged then Xpadder is not cleanly moving the mouse.
For me with Xpadder's mouse settings in the background I do get a jagged graph which could account for poor quality movement.
With desktop and mousemove only I get a 99% flat line.
One thing I do notice is that Xpadder (on Win8) is not running in realtime :?
If I toggle this via taskmanager I get a flatline regardless of background windows visible.

How does the top graph appear to you both in the above situations for Xpadder-emulated horizontal mouse movement?
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Re: Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

Post by Primal Fear »

Is is OK when my lower graph always looks like this?
Text/Images: Show
Image
It's obviously not all green.
The upper graph looks like that:
Image
So straight lined but it doesn't get longer than that.

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Re: Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

Post by Jonathan »

Thanks for that info.
Well, the good news is that I've found an issue with Xpadder's timing system. This is probably the cause of the difference in timing for your different CPU states and it may possibly be the reason for this mouse issue.

It's time to move now from the desktop into a game. This should be much easier for us to see the problem.
Alyx wrote:I just played around with various mouse sensitivity settings in Windows, Xpadder, and ZDoom but have not been able to figure out why some settings rotate the ZDoom viewpoint smoothly and some seem to have some chop.
I am using the latest version of ZDoom with the Doom 1 shareware wad (that music brings back memories!). Windowed mode. Default mouse speed for Windows and ZDoom.
Xpadder with mouse speed 32 (default), 1, 10, 255 all test perfectly with slight stick movement, half or full.
It's pretty smooth no matter the settings or movement.

Alyx, can you let us know which wad and mouse speed settings (for Windows, ZDoom and Xpadder) you are using to cause this chopping.
Also, is the choppiness similar to this?

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Re: Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

Post by gamerpedro »

Here's a video capture of what I experienced. The game is Penumbra Overture. For the whole time of recording, FRAPS showed 60fps.

You should set video quality to 480p and put full screen mode on so you can see it better.

Focus on the glowstick. Even towards the end, when the movement seems smoother, more fluid, it is not. It's still shaking.

Last edited by Primal Fear on 17 Feb 2013, 15:34, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: embedded video

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Re: Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

Post by Primal Fear »

I tried to use the pointer trails to make possible to make visible how the cursor is moving (means I'm not even if it really works). I will compare that later with how it looks for me. I could imagine that good CPU of current times changes the clock are the time on a rather old game like Penumbra.

Do you have a AMD CPU?
Do you have Windows8?

And can you see that jerky movement without the glow stick as indicator?

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Re: Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

Post by gamerpedro »

Primal Fear wrote:Do you have a AMD CPU?
Yes. AMD Phenom II X4 955 (3.20 GHz).
Primal Fear wrote:Do you have Windows8?
No. Windows 7 64 bits Professional.
Primal Fear wrote:And can you see that jerky movement without the glow stick as indicator?
Definately, yes.

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Re: Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

Post by Primal Fear »

According to the glowstick :shifty: I have alternating phases of perfectly fluid movement and stuttering in Penumbra. The times of these phases vary a little bit, but the fluid mouse movement is always a little bit longer. It's always somewhere around 30/20 seconds.
To make that easily visible I have used this profile:

Code: Select all

;--- Xpadder Profile Data ---
DataType=Profile
Version=2012.12.31
Set1Button1Slots=Mouse Move Right
Set1Button1Toggle=1
Set1Button1MouseSpeed=255
I have used the highest mouse emulation speed to make any stuttering that may come from Xpadder as conspicuous as possible and the toggle the to eliminate the possibility that I may have released the button for a short moment. The mouse sensitivity in Penumbra was 1.0, you also need to look around 45° to the ground as the as this affects how much the glowstick reacts on the mouse movement.

Can you confirm my perception by testing with this profile or is the stuttering for you all the time?

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Re: Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

Post by gamerpedro »

I did the testing and... Yes, there is an "angle zone" within which movement seems perfectly fluid, according to the glowstick.

But, I changed the mouse speed value from 255 to 1, and I noticed a constant slight stuttering. I can see it on Windows Desktop too with the pointer. It's not much, but it still doesn't appear to me as smooth as I can think of. It's like the pointer moves from step to step and I can almost see the steps. It doesn't sound "analogue" smooth to me.

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Re: Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

Post by Jonathan »

Jonathan wrote:I am using the latest version of ZDoom with the Doom 1 shareware wad (that music brings back memories!). Windowed mode. Default mouse speed for Windows and ZDoom.
Xpadder with mouse speed 32 (default), 1, 10, 255 all test perfectly with slight stick movement, half or full.
It's pretty smooth no matter the settings or movement.
Standing still and turning left constantly slowly or fast is smooth.

Does the stepping problem occur in ZDoom for you? ZDoom is free, small and less C/GPU intensive so it ideal for testing this situation.

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Re: Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

Post by Primal Fear »

Actually it's not completely free, you need to place .wad file from a original game there to use it. If you don't have one, it won't work.

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Re: Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

Post by Jonathan »

I tested via the shareware wad (google doom shareware wad)

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Re: Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

Post by Alyx »

Hi, I've been out of commission with work and computer problems.

Haven't had much progress on the 60 fps vidcap front, I'll try Fraps next.

Just popping in to note that the problem is much more pronounced in certain games. In my experience it was not very noticeable in ZDoom, so that may be a poor test case. I think one game I definitely saw it in was Mass Effect 1. I need to install it and confirm.

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Re: Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

Post by Primal Fear »

Jonathan wrote:I tested via the shareware wad (google doom shareware wad)
Yes that works. The mouse movement is perfectly smooth for me too.
Somebody with obvious problems with the mouse movement should test this.

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Re: Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

Post by grumbul »

Hi folks.

Glad to see this problem has a thread as I have definitely seen this problem on several different set-ups, including my own.

I have a feeling this is directly linked to V-Syncs and the inherent mouse lag that this introduces.

Might explain why some folks are seeing this and others are not.

To be honest this problem is about the only criticism I have of XPadder so I hope those of you with some technical know-how can come up with a fix.

Primal Fear
Xpadder Xpert
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Location: Germany
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Re: Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

Post by Primal Fear »

If you think that Vsync is the problem, simply try if deactivating it solves your problem with Xpadders mouse movement.

Z-Doom had Vsync off and after I turned it on, the mouse movement was still perfectly smooth for me.

grumbul
Posts: 3
Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 09:39

Re: Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

Post by grumbul »

Yes, I have tried that.

Also tried several suggestions from elsewhere such as capping the frame rate at 1-2fps below the monitor refresh rate.

To be honest it did not make any difference and this problem still exists.

pier4r
Posts: 52
Joined: 02 Mar 2013, 18:09

Re: Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

Post by pier4r »

OT: (Great thread!)

Primal Fear
Xpadder Xpert
Posts: 2437
Joined: 09 Feb 2010, 16:41
Location: Germany
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Re: Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

Post by Primal Fear »

grumbul wrote:Yes, I have tried that.
When the problems still occurs while Vsync is disabled, Vsync shouldn't be the reason. Except if your gaphics card driver isn't configured to forc Vsync.

@everybody: I would like to gather some informations, have a look at the poll on top of this topic it.

pier4r
Posts: 52
Joined: 02 Mar 2013, 18:09

Re: Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

Post by pier4r »

I can't spot the lag with my eyes only (or, at least, i see the lag when i test the mouse with paint [draw an ellipsis] but i can't spot it during a game session) but the graph is not stable i don't know why.

Image



with my mouse (microfost laser mouse 6000)
Image


PC:
intel core duo yonah t2450 ; 4gb ram (seen 3.3); win xp pro sp3; geforce 7600gt agp ; other info required?

grumbul
Posts: 3
Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 09:39

Re: Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

Post by grumbul »

No word on this issues at all?

Would be great if this could be resolved.

Alyx
Posts: 28
Joined: 01 Oct 2011, 20:41

Re: Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

Post by Alyx »

Just noticed something interesting.

I'm playing BioShock 2 with Xpadder and the camera rotation seems pleasantly smooth... unless I move my actual mouse. If I do that even just once Xpadder's movement becomes terribly jerky until I reload my savegame. Then it becomes smooth again, until I bump my mouse.

I'm not sure if this was happening in other games (Mass Effect 1, still have to reinstall that) with jerky Xpadder mouse movement, but I will keep an eye out for it now.

Primal Fear
Xpadder Xpert
Posts: 2437
Joined: 09 Feb 2010, 16:41
Location: Germany
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Re: Low mouse emulation refresh rate?

Post by Primal Fear »

On a slightly different note: This post has inspired that it would be worth the try to limit Xpadder to only one core in the Task Manager. Simply right click on the process of Xpadder and click on "Set affinity...". Remove all ticks except from one core (I would recommend core 2 or 3) and click on OK.

Windows will forget this setting when you close Xpadder, so if it works you will need to use this tool to set the affinity permanently.

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