Rumble not working correctly with Cyborg V.5 and Battlefield 3

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JonnyReDHeD
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Rumble not working correctly with Cyborg V.5 and Battlefield 3

Post by JonnyReDHeD »

Hi, am back and have the v5 rumble pad. set the image in xpadder and just dropped my Xbox buttons and profile in on it and saved out new. It works well your right. There are however some things to adjust to, the first being that the controller does feel bigger in hand with move movement for right stick. And the left stick button sprint is a little click on and off like a harder button, not so soft to activate and only activates in the right position whereas the xbox controller was less fussy. Not bad points, but rather a new feel to get used to after years of the same controller type.

I have tho found that so far with just the updated driver from the website (although not stating v5 rumble pad download it was hit and miss) I don't appear to have any rumble at all. It twitches when I move the rumble sliders in xpadder but in game nothing, not a bean of rumble. Did you have this same issue and or if so how did you overcome it. Would I need the programming software as well? although it states it does not need it. Am most keen to hear your thoughts on this. Am going to back trace my steps to see if I have missed something.


Also looking a the manual I dont appear to have as many tabs in the properties of the device, calibration test, deadzones and about being the only 3 tabs. I might try one of the other driver updates next in case I got the wrong one.

-Jonnyredhed

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Re: BC2 and BF3 sights and crouch i can do but how to stand and aim

Post by Primal Fear »

Rumble was working for me in every game yet. But now that you mention that I could find something strange. If I disable Xinput for Xpadder ("Use Xinput (if installed)" off), then Xpadder states that rumble wouldn't be available. Can you test this too?
My driver version is 6.5.6.7 (downloaded from cyborggaming.de).

The programming software is just something like Xpadder, but not as good. The only good thing on it is that is preconfigured for every supported Saitek/Cyborg model (but only if you have the correct drivers installed, otherwise it will refuse to work with the controller). You don't need install it.

This manual from the website was made with the Saitek P3600 Rumblepad, so actually with the technological predecessor. I was also keen on the possibility to switch between the Classic Mode (Direct Input) and the X Mode (Xinput). But all these Tabs are also missing for me, I only have Test, DeadZone and Info. I cannot imagine why they should have removed these features if it was already programmed once.
Where do you think you could get older driver versions? Cyborg Gaming only offers one version. We could try the driver that is offered on Saiteks website, but it is not sure that they are different.

JonnyReDHeD
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Re: BC2 and BF3 sights and crouch i can do but how to stand and aim

Post by JonnyReDHeD »

I'm downloading from your .de site also, but driver looks the same. You notice no clear v5 label when choosing the driver.

I spent an hour on live chat with USA support who couldn't even identify my UK v5 gamepad saying when they took over the company this gamepad had just been discontinued so they couldn't help and have emailed UK support who are useless at getting back to me. 3 days now.

I've also just downloaded Xinput 64bit but have never used it.

No mater what driver I tried I still cannot get the force,precision mode and analog buttons tabs.. These are very important so where are they now with this v5 I have to ask the UK support later today. The v5 product said all this was adjustable. With the 3 tabs we have its not very good so yes I'll be asking UK support for older drivers going back say a little way and will share them with you if and when I get them. Am sure the support will have them if I push them.

If i run xpadder with my newly made cyborg profile I get rumble, but close close xpadder then it goes away. So even with xpadder running and rumble, as soon as BF3 loads the level and goes ingame all rumble turns off. Dont know why. So this isnt to good for me. No rumble in Rage nor Batman Arkum City. So its the Cyborg drivers. Maybe earlier ones will help.

There was this thread from the forum with a hack for some without rumble/setting etc. didnt work for me: http://www.saitekforum.com/showthread.php?t=11338

So unless the UK support or EU support can magic up some earlier working drivers with those tabs and or some patch or beta drivers. I am not sure how to proceed. Will check back in later after testing with Xinput and chatting with UK support when they open later.

Controller wise in BF3 its good, much better. If I keep this pad then i'll grease slightly the left stick to ease the harsh click to sprint. Just hope rumble will work in game eventually as it feels odd without after using it for so many years with rumble.


just tried ftp and got this: ftp://ftp.saitek.com/pub/ just looking on there now. If old drivers are still around this will be the place. EDIT: looked right thru the ftp site and nothing but the ones we have now. Seems this gamepad is discontinued. I'll speak to UK support today.

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Re: BC2 and BF3 sights and crouch i can do but how to stand and aim

Post by Primal Fear »

It seems like they indeed don't sell it in the US market. If you click here on "Buy now" and then on "US", you will end up on an older Cyborg Rumblepad based on the P3600.
Strange is also, on UK and France it leads to the specific Gameshark shop (Directly by Mad Catz) but they don't have this controller. Only the German link ends on a site where you could order the controller.

I don't believe that it is discontinued. It's the only gamepad they have still on their website, with the V.1 and V.3 removed. So if something is discontinued and the last two.
If it is also discontinued I would await a new controller line in the next days or weeks.


There came a sheet with my Cyborg V.5 with the text on the first side of this pdf manual.
The link where you should download the driver doesn't even exist. Also note the last sentence: Please note that Rumble Force will only work on the PC in games that support "Games for Windows" and on Xbox360.
That sounds like the controller officially only supports only Xinput rumble. Quite miserable, but not the problem for Arkham City and Rage. Battlefiled3 should also use Xinput, but I'm not sure about that. It may also support Direct Input, so it's possible that it uses it.

Do you use X360CE with these games, to change the button configuration? That would be an explanation for that problem.

JonnyReDHeD
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Re: BC2 and BF3 sights and crouch i can do but how to stand and aim

Post by JonnyReDHeD »

To be honest I hadnt heard of Xinput nor X360CE before you mentioned them. I have a Win 7 64bit install and plugged my xbox controller in, checked for the latest xbox driver 64 bit from MS and then use the latest nightly build of Xpadder. Can I ask what I should do with Xinput if I can find a win7 updated driver, and or X360CE.... ? How can I force rumble then.

Speaking to the UK support they cleared this issue up. The picture you rightly spotted was different in the pdf manual is the Cyborg rumble pad v.5 fps (non xbox standard) controller. it has the black center button with fps on it, where as mine has the Xobx360 green logo. The tech guy said this xbox clone pad only needs the default windows update driver and NOT any from their website. There are two versions of the same gamepad, I have the xbox clone/replacement

Disappointed I was and made that very clear to them, they accept its confusing and are looking into the matter. They are trying to track down the non xobx version from somewhere to sell to me at a low cost. And it will have all those tabs.

So I just uninstalled the gamepad using device manager with the delete software tick box checked. and then rebooted and plug it back in and let windows update do its thing.


will report back soon if rumble works...




...It didnt work at all with the basic windows update drivers, the basic xbox ones. no control in the test screen nor rumble or anything in game.

thats me all out of ideas for now.


Edit 12/01/12

UK support sourced the non xbox version of the pad and have offered to send it fre of charge, because they are R&D they cannot charge me :) so I have given them my details and will give this other controller a try. Hopefully this one will give me rumble. I've got to RMA my Crucial M4 SSD back today so will lose my OS for a week, will install on a temp drive and try and check back in a few days.

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Re: BC2 and BF3 sights and crouch i can do but how to stand and aim

Post by JonnyReDHeD »

I tried a clean install of window 7 64bit. plugged the xbox controller in first and let windows update install it. Then I unplugged it and plugged in the Cyborg v.5 rumble pad and again let windows update install the drivers. This being the advice of the UK support. But when I started Xpadder/latest nightly build, it just shows the searching icon and does not load the default profile as if it cannot find a gamepad. Plug in the Xbox360 controller and it find it. Unplug it and try the Cyborg and nothing. Just will not see the controller now.

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Re: BC2 and BF3 sights and crouch i can do but how to stand and aim

Post by FARSTRIDER »

maybe you need to reconfigure it in xpadder

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Re: BC2 and BF3 sights and crouch i can do but how to stand and aim

Post by Primal Fear »

As the magnifying glass is visible, the controller would have to be hidden in the settings.

I wanted to try out if the DirectInput rumble would work with the standard drivers, so I tried this with connecting the Xbox360pad before V.5 in the same port already too as I also cannot delete the driver from Cyborggaming.de. But for me it isn't working too.
In principle the idea isn't so wrong. It is working that way between the Motioninjoy driver for the PS3pad and the drivers for my DualSFX Evotion that is also working on PS3 (although the PS3 will only be detected with the DualSFX Evolution drivers, but it isn't working).

As the Xinput Rumble is working in Xpadder it should also work wit Rage an Arkham City. Are you sure it isn't working at all? Maybe it's the same problem as for me with Skyrim, where I hear for smaller Rumble events only a quiet humming.

JonnyReDHeD
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Re: BC2 and BF3 sights and crouch i can do but how to stand and aim

Post by JonnyReDHeD »

Yes I checked back into xpadder set-up and deleted my ini file and the controller was found. Seems this ini file gets screwed up easy. So now the Cyborg V5 is back again. But even with the standard windows update drivers there is no rumble in game BF3 and others :( The UK support said there's did work. This is two separate OS installs and no rumble, so it might be I have to delete my BF3 cfg file that holds the key bindings and 0ther info. Then try again and setup BF3 again. Maybe there is something in that file thats shutting this rumble off. I mean out of game and with Xpadder running (latest nightly build) i have full rumble everywhere - perfect. But as the BF3 level actually loads it just shuts off! so i have no idea how to remedy this.

On another note the Uk saitek support sent a spare Cyb org 3600 they had and it arrived a while back. Being a non Xbox360 controller the buttons are all messed right up in xpadder and in BF3. Its taking some time to start from scratch. But in game there is rumble. But this older controller is a bit smaller than the Cyborg v.5, does not have the rubberised coating and the left stick push switch (to sprint in BF3) is almost impossible to use. I mean real bad, in game u just want to sprint right? and this needs messing around with and release of pressure and then re-applied pressure forward and down. Its NOT really usable for me. The Cyborg V.5 is tricky yes but with some PTFE special grease on the forward part of the left stick ball joint the left stick button to sprint is ok now.


I'll continue on with our Cyborg V.5. I'll have my retuned from RMA'ed Crucial M4 SSD next week so a fresh win7 install again. And another shot at getting this thing working proper with rumble in games. I am thinking maybe games that support the xbox360 standard driver xinput you said, well maybe this cyborg v.5 pad has just slightly flaky support and its a bit hit and miss in game and on a system per system basis.

Its a shame because this pad is good and ingame in BF3 it controls very good much better than the xbox360 controller for sure. It does need all these extra gamepad hardware settings from the control panel, the ones I have here with this P3600 which is great. I've suggested to saitek UK support they write a driver that uses this xbox standard but allows all these other set up tabs in the controllers properties from the control panel/hardware.


as for getting this Cyborg v.5 rumble to work in game, I am at a loss now. Small edit to that, yes your correct in game with BF3 i dont get rumble for fire trigger but I do feel the slightest rumble for some explosions. thats all though. So the major rumble is turned off or so low its barely noticeable.

Edit: OK I've tried a reboot and removing the cyborg v.5 drivers and software via device manager. The on reboot let windows update find and install the Cyborg V.5, and then without running xpadder entered BF3 and now I have a low level of rumble for everything, much lower than it should be and is set for in xpadder. And because I find it easier to use some of BF3 bindings along with xpadder I had to add back in the left stick bindings in BF3. But now the controller is usable Ingame Bf3 but without xpadder and without full on rumble. exit the game and run xpadder and say pull the fire trigger and there is full on rumble. Enter BF3 MP game once again and the rumble is shut off for fire etc, with only a tiny tiny rumble for a big explosion.

So what do you make of that then? conflicts between BF3/xpadder and xinput drivers maybe. I wonder how to get this thing working. Maybe it wont any more than it is now. I mean I can use the new cyborg V.5 without xpaddder in BF3 (fav game) but when I zoom in I am used to my slowing down my look (left stick) so I can get a solid smooth aim, and various other enhancements xpadder allows. Its frustrating to be so close to having the controller work well and as I want. The Cyborg P3600 they sent me is not so good, keybindings are a mess and there is that very tricky sprint from the left stick button. So the P3600 is a no go. The Cyborg v5 is the one, it feels good, controls well... just gotta get the darn rumble back to normal levels.


Suggestions very much welcome.

EDIT again 14:04 UK time.

ok something changed. so I've done a clean setup as in wiping the Cyborg V.5 and then letting windows update do its thing, then go ingame BF3. So i'm at the point i was above and I thought one last time I'll try the instructions of this saitek forum post to get force rumble back... Top first post
http://www.saitekforum.com/showthread.p ... a2&t=11338

An would you believe it I now have some low/medium strength rumble with xpadder in bf3 using the Cyborg v.5 :D So I increased my Cyborg v.5 xpadder rumble settings to max for weapons fire and a movement and other bits I like rumblle, and its increased a little more in game. Not massive but certainly fixed and working.

if you read that first post from the link above, and then skip to the last page you see some users have fixed using win7 so I thought why not. I backed up/exported that string from the registry and done a system restore point. and then followed the instructions to delete a certain key. which this time had force settings. unplugged and re plugged the gamepad and it worked. not done a reboot yet but its working right now with xpadder in BF3 to a level i am happy with. :leftthumbup:

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Re: BC2 and BF3 sights and crouch i can do but how to stand and aim

Post by Primal Fear »

Now I get what you mean. When you start Battlefield 3, the rumble coming from Xpadder isn't working. The rumble directly from the game may be something completely different.
I can reproduce that with Deus Ex:Human Revolution (didn't try other games).

On the first look this is a really strange behavior, as it works with the Xbox360pad. My theory is, that Xinput compatible games claim exclusive access to the Xinput rumble. Xpadder possibly send always it's rumble signal via Xinput and DirectInput. So if Xinput is blocked, DirectInput will still get the signal. Now we have DirectInput rumble not working on the V.5, so no rumble signal of Xpadder finds it's target.

Actually I would have recommended to you to try out the possibility 3 from here to block the game from doing that. But I don't know if EA's Anti-Cheat protections allows that. So, as EA is eager to ban people for life, you should have asked the EA support before if it is allowed to use it.
But however, your registry solution will not cause any problems in that way. So it should be preferred.
Can you try something with Xpadder? I would like to know if DirectInput Rumble is now working for you. Open the Xpadder settings and deactivate under Options "Use Xinput (if installed)". It's the first entry in the second section "running". Now test if the rumble is still available with Xpadder.

JonnyReDHeD
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Re: BC2 and BF3 sights and crouch i can do but how to stand and aim

Post by JonnyReDHeD »

Ah i see the rename xinput.dll yeah might get me banned.

But

I just tried out your request and turned "Use Xinput (if installed)" off, and I still get rumble back to the weaker strength of before. So yes its still there ingame BF3 (BF3 being the only game In have on my temp install here) which must mean this directinput is working. Xpadder running with xinput on allows me to boost the rumble to a better level. Could do with a little more force to the rumble.


A little EDIT to that:
Now its working all of a sudden there is one last thing I might try but not before system restore point. This basic windows update driver for the Cyborg V.5 dont have the deadzones tab, which is most useful as I find the left stick travel from one side to the other just to look a little to far while in the thick of battle in BF3 and I did set the outa limits in a little when I had the deadazones tab. I wonder if I install the one that worked with this xbox Cyborg V.5 if I'll loose the rumble I've no just gained today. Might try it later, as I have a clan match 32x32 BF3 battle later tonight and this controller feels good now to play with. Bigger in my hands and little heavier than the xbox360 pad. Also I wionder if I can boost the force rumble more than Xpadder can do.

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Re: BC2 and BF3 sights and crouch i can do but how to stand and aim

Post by Primal Fear »

Good to definitely know that DirectInput rumble can be made working. Now I only have to find a way to get rid of this downloaded driver :roll:, as it isn't working for me with it.

The DeadZone Setting isn't working for Xinput (what should be used by Battlefield3), it's only working for DirectInput. You would also probably kill the DirectInput Rumble with this driver.
As for the Rumble, I'm pretty sure that if you have configured 100% in Xpadder, then it should be the maximum.

JonnyReDHeD
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Re: BC2 and BF3 sights and crouch i can do but how to stand and aim

Post by JonnyReDHeD »

I've come across this FPS space battle game... something I was just looking for - Shattered Horizon on Steam from 2009/10 http://store.steampowered.com/app/18110 ... _151_150_1

Its pretty dead for multilayer but there isb a single player pack (bots) included. It plays really well and looks fab. 360 degrees space movement in a jet pack, and its a nightmare to control and play :) going to take a bit Cyborg pad mapping but it plays almost great with default Cyborg and my BF3 profile which I used to test the game. With some work and a lot of practise this could real fun. Its like COD in space! not that I am a COD fan (BF thru and thru is me) But for a 2009 space game its really underrated and a shame the servers are all but dead. Still it only cost me £5 on steam with a coupon I had.

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Re: BC2 and BF3 sights and crouch i can do but how to stand and aim

Post by JonnyReDHeD »

I've reinstalled my OS on my new SSD and when all updated I first plugged the Xbox controller in and let windows update do its thing, and then the P3600 (like i did before) and then after that the Cyborg V.5 same socket of my USB2 hub. It appears to work for force rumble but again I have the odd issue of out of game with Xpadder running I have xpadder set for stronger rumble and you feel it. But join BF3 and the rumble strength just half in power. Why do you think this is? and is there anyway to address it, or is this now a BF3 support issue as in the way the game supports force feedback because I'd sure like to have the full strength control..

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Re: BC2 and BF3 sights and crouch i can do but how to stand and aim

Post by FARSTRIDER »

i assume its an bf3 issue so for xpadder to work as mentioned before in other posts usually if you unplug the controller start the game then plug it back in start xpadder it should allow you to control it

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Re: BC2 and BF3 sights and crouch i can do but how to stand and aim

Post by JonnyReDHeD »

thanks for the reply, but I cannot that plug the controller in when infgame, because I utilise BF3's control switching key bindings for Jeep, tank, jet and helicopter. It does this automatically where as I don't want to try and fumble around to switch keysets using the controller when I change from on foot to something else. This would be tiresome for me. If i intend or just go on foot missions using MP then yes I could do this and it does work. But I have to then unplug and replug ever match. Again tiresome to do. Seamless is the goal and nothing less will do and why should it. I was wondering where BF3 controls the amount of force from, is it a ini or cfg file setting somewhere which could be changed, or could it be in a dll or other no accessible file.

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Re: BC2 and BF3 sights and crouch i can do but how to stand and aim

Post by FARSTRIDER »

it seems like ea encrypts their newer pc games @ every level. aside from the xinput hack mentioned before which i doubt would do anything for ea related coding. doing a search i came across this site on the bf3 forums it has a tool that may be of use

Image
Image

http://bf3.realmware.co.uk/settings-editor/

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Re: BC2 and BF3 sights and crouch i can do but how to stand and aim

Post by JonnyReDHeD »

ah yes this might do it, thanks. Still nothing extra for force though here. Will try it and post back.


edit:
yes a useful tool but still no force feedback control other than on and off.

Its a shame this cyborg controller for some reason now I've got it running, will only give half the strength force feedback of the Xbox360 controller. It appears to work the same with and without the use xinput switch in xpadder as Primal Fear had me test. Just the same half strength force feedback. I wonder if we can do anything here. I did ask Siatek/cyborg UK support but they said since this controller is not made any more it would be highly unlikely they would look into this matter.

Do you have the same issue Primal Fear ?

I wonder if there is a tool or hack to boost force feedback. I have xpadder set to 100% and its really good out of game or in other games like Shank or Shattered Horizon (steam) its all i have installed so far. But BF3 it is half that great rumble.

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Re: BC2 and BF3 sights and crouch i can do but how to stand and aim

Post by Primal Fear »

If I assign 100% Rumble to the right trigger and 20% Rumble to the left trigger and then press both, then I get less rumble than when I only press the right trigger. Maybe Battlefield 3 is always sending a low rumble signal (less than 10%) that isn't causing anything except of interfering Xpadder signal.
Can you disable the Rumle for Battlefield 3?

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Re: BC2 and BF3 sights and crouch i can do but how to stand and aim

Post by FARSTRIDER »

@primal the app i mentioned has that option its labeled as controller vibration under controls tab

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Re: BC2 and BF3 sights and crouch i can do but how to stand and aim

Post by JonnyReDHeD »

Yes I can disable BF3 vibration from within BF3 using the on off setting and would be the same as using that app mentioned above. I then had no vibration, and did try this with Xpadder 'use xinput (if installed)' both off and back on again. BF3 turns it off or on.

Its a shame because I am getting a good mapping and would love that extra vibration signal strength thats just missing right now.

@Farstrider The app BF3 settings editor is useful in not having to load the game every time to adjust settings.

Even my xbox360 controller displays a bit less vibration strength in game as compared to out of game (with xpadder) not much but noticeable. The cyborg as I mentioned is half maybe.

With xpadder xinput off and bf3 vibration on, the cyborg has less vibration than with xpadder xinput on. Its very weak. If I had to grade it with xpadder xinput back on i'd say I am getting at best 40% full vibration.

How to get it to tho, what to do. If there is anything to do that is.

edit: I wonder if there would be some way to hack the reg. If you follow that saitek forum post above it takes you to the place in the reg where the cyborg has rumble settings

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\MediaProperties\PrivateProperties\Joystick\OEM

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\MediaProperties\PrivateProperties\DirectInput


I'm past what I know but wonder if and how we could force this gamepad to give the full vibration in all games. Or BF3 to except the full signal. Not a problem we will get much help with.

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Re: BC2 and BF3 sights and crouch i can do but how to stand and aim

Post by FARSTRIDER »

knowing saitek they may require you to instal their app to make the native support stronger or it could be an issue with bf3's xinput support. also if you didnt install the driver from microsoft & used the OOB driver then that could be the answer aswell according to the wikipedia entry for it i say start with the xbox drivers 1st http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us ... or-windows

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Re: BC2 and BF3 sights and crouch i can do but how to stand and aim

Post by JonnyReDHeD »

Hi

yeah i did start with the driver for win7 64bit from that same link. It installs that little app/driver thing. Then plug in the xbox360 and let it update, then reboot and then the cyborg and again let windows update do its thing and even a day later there was another windows update cyborg update wanting to install. so as far as windows update yes all done. Maybe the order should be shaken up who knows. Am not sure how to strip them all back off again correctly and starting a fresh. Let me know if you come across anything guys.

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Re: BC2 and BF3 sights and crouch i can do but how to stand and aim

Post by FARSTRIDER »

tried saitek's app ftp://ftp.saitek.com/pub/software/full/ ... _64bit.exe (for 64bit vista/7) it seems like since the buyout from madcatz it looks like saitek is moving from its gamepads to just flight sim. hardware. i remember when they toke over INTERACT ACCESSORIES(gameshark distibuter) they dropped support for all of that stuff

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Re: BC2 and BF3 sights and crouch i can do but how to stand and aim

Post by Primal Fear »

Saitek has been split up into Saitek (flight sim stuff), Cyborg ("hard core" gaming) and Eclipse (luxury devices). All of them where before trademarks of Saitek. That's already some time ago an the V.5 has actually been developed under Mad Catz in opposite to the other gamepads that have been distributed under the label Cyborg Gaming (V.1, V.3).

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Re: Rumble not working correctly with Cyborg V.5 and Battlefield 3

Post by Primal Fear »

For me is Dinput rumble still not working at all. I have found in the Internet many forum posts that DirectInput Rumble wouldn't work on the X360pad at all, so I tried my Xbox360 and shows exactly the same behavior as the Cyborg V.5. The question is now if the driver of the Cyborg V.5 has caused that or if this is simply standard.

Can anybody who reads this and has a Xbox360 controller, but never installed a Cyborg V.5, test if Xpadder can still apply rumble to the controller when "Use Xinput (if installed)" in the Xpadder settings is disabled?


Edit: Maybe this is already answering the question.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectInput under "DirectInput VS Xinput".
An Xbox 360 Controller with the default Microsoft driver with DirectInput has the following limitations compared to with XInput:

the left and right triggers will act as a single axis representing the signed difference between the triggers, not as independent analog axes
vibration effects will not operate
querying for headset devices will not operate
A practical test would still be good.

JonnyReDHeD
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Re: Rumble not working correctly with Cyborg V.5 and Battlefield 3

Post by JonnyReDHeD »

Ah yes i can confirm some of your idea here but not all. If you remember when we first started I had only the xbox360 controller and can confirm a 50-75% strength vibration in BF3 as compared to the vibration when out of game all with xpadder running. But did not try it with xpadder xinput off. But I am considering a clean install once again, having the Crucial M4 128gb SSD it does not take to long.

When I installed the OS just days back I didnt think to test xpadder and BF3 just after installing and plugging in the xbox360 controller which I did before the Cyborg v.5.

Is it possible to remove the cyborg driver and all registery traces without damaging the OS. I have tried it via device managed and ticked the option to delete the driver software, then unplugged from the internet rebooted. But plugging the gamepad back in again it just found the drivers and there it was again all without being connected to the internet. I was at a loss as to where the drivers were stored having deleted the saitek folder in C, users, and anywhere else I could find.

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Re: Rumble not working correctly with Cyborg V.5 and Battlefield 3

Post by Errol »

JonnyReDHeD wrote:Is it possible to remove the cyborg driver and all registery traces without damaging the OS.
I'd suggest to go back to a point only if you have several system restore points to a time just before those stuff was on your PC.
Just keep in mind to backup any important info you presently have or else you'll lose it.

JonnyReDHeD
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Re: Rumble not working correctly with Cyborg V.5 and Battlefield 3

Post by JonnyReDHeD »

No possible for me I am afraid but thanks for the thought, plus I find system restore just does not work well and the system slowly grinds down in an odd way. Running BF3 and like heavy intensive games I need a sharp system and system restore for me never works well if at all. In all my years of trying it I've only ever had a couple that worked ok. Its easier to just reinstall now I am running SSD OS. Plus its been a week or so now and have so many programs and other things done,, picking my way through windows system restore would be a messy affair.

If the Cyborg drivers are interfering, and all I have done for this install is plug the gamepad and in and let windows update install its cyborg xbox360 type controller driver. Then we could not do any less surely at the moment. One has to plug the device in and without some custom hack will need to let it update from windows update in order for it to work. Primal might well be right in that the cyborg driver itself interferes. If I do a clean re-install I'll certainly test out his hypothesis before plugging in the cyborg controller, just using the Xbox one in BF3 first with xpadder xinput on and off.
Last edited by JonnyReDHeD on 26 Jan 2012, 23:54, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Rumble not working correctly with Cyborg V.5 and Battlefield 3

Post by Primal Fear »

I guess that the driver is removed that way. Only in the Windows Controller Settings is still this interface from the advanced driver, but it isn't working and in the Info tab it states that there would be no driver installed.
Under "Devices and Printers" is the name of the controller different than with the advanced driver and all the driver files are the same as for the Xbox360pad.

Edit: I have some screenshots:
The name of the controller doesn't change, but the name of the driver that is seemingly for Dinput.
with advanced driver: Show
ImageImage
with standard driver: Show
Driver not available
ImageImage
I have simply uninstalled the first driver entry to remove the advanced driver.

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Re: Rumble not working correctly with Cyborg V.5 and Battlefield 3

Post by JonnyReDHeD »

So you have removed the Cyborg driver then. Did you try out your test of just using the xbox360 with xinput on and then off in xpadder. Or do you want me to also try this still.

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Re: Rumble not working correctly with Cyborg V.5 and Battlefield 3

Post by Primal Fear »

Yes, I'm pretty sure that I have removed it. I just wanted to say that it is probably easy to remove the driver, but the interface in Windows game controller settings can't be removed for some reason. So if you think the you cannot remove the driver possibly means only that you think that it would be still there as you this interface.
I also want to say that if Xpadders rumble is working in Battlefield 3 that this doesn't have inevitably something to do with the driver that is installed as the only difference between the advanced and the standard driver is the DirectInput part, and the Rumble for it isn't working anyways.
My question is now if you possibly did something else that could caused that the rumble working (even if not with full strength). The registry trick doesn't work for me.

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Re: Rumble not working correctly with Cyborg V.5 and Battlefield 3

Post by JonnyReDHeD »

With this latest install i've had for a week now. First without running xpadder yet I installed the win7 64bit xbox accessories/drivers software and then with a powered USB hub plugged the xbox controller in and let windows up grab something else and install it. The with the same usb port I plugged in the Cyborg V.5 and again let windows update fetch and do its thing. Also noticed just after that the windows update section had an updated driver showing. So let that install as well. Then ran xpadder and loaded up my cyborg layout and bf3 profile for it. And it worked as it does now with half strength. With this install I dont see the registery entry mentioned on the Siatek forum. I do have this 2nd hand P3600, if you have similar try plugging that in to see if that shakes things up.

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Re: Rumble not working correctly with Cyborg V.5 and Battlefield 3

Post by Primal Fear »

You said that if disable "use Xiput (if installed)" in Xpadder, that Xpadders rumble would still work (but with lower strength). I think the driver of the P3600 could cause this.

I don't have this controller. We could compare our installed driver, but there something easier we cold try. Run dxdiag.exe having only the V.5 and not the P3600 connected and open the Input tab at the end. On top under "DirectInput Devices" search for either the Saitek P3600 or the Cyborg V.5 (maybe called "Cyborg Rumble Pad") and look in the last column for the "Force-Feedback driver". Normally there should be written something like "not applicable", but I except that for you there is written something else.

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Re: Rumble not working correctly with Cyborg V.5 and Battlefield 3

Post by JonnyReDHeD »

With this current install I've not plugged in the P3600, only the xbox360 and trhe Cyborg V.5. With only the Cyborg V.5 plugged in I checked in dxdiag.exe and the last column for force feedback has N/A

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Re: Rumble not working correctly with Cyborg V.5 and Battlefield 3

Post by Primal Fear »

So that should mean "not applicable". All other devices there should also have N/A, except of the P3600 if it is connected.
If you now disable "Use Xinput (if installed)" in Xpadder, does the rumble still work? It shouldn't.
Does Xpadders rumble work in Battlefield 3 (of course with "Use Xinput..." activated)?

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Re: Rumble not working correctly with Cyborg V.5 and Battlefield 3

Post by JonnyReDHeD »

If I turn off "Use Xinput (if installed)" and pull the trigger yes there is no vibration. But in game BF3 I do still have the exact same level of vibration as with xinput on. Does not appear to make any difference turning xpadders "Use Xinput (if installed)" on or off.. not sure why it still works then.

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Re: Rumble not working correctly with Cyborg V.5 and Battlefield 3

Post by Primal Fear »

You try to combine the rumble of the game and the rumble of Xpadder, right?
Let's assume that Xpadders rumble really isn't working anyways when the game is running, neither for the Xbox360pad not for the V.5. On principle games don't use the full possible performance for the rumble for every time, probably you will get only full rumble when you stand in a explosion.
You said that the Xbox360pad has in the game slightly more rumble then the V.5. I think this is because Battlefield sends only a pretty low Rumble signal, so the motors will only get a relatively low voltage. Now the more powerful rumble motors of the V.5 don't get so good in motion at this low voltage like the rumble motors in the Xbox360pad have no problems with that. That's the same problem I had (actually still have, but currently I don't play it) with Skyrim, but here is the rumble signal so low that the rumble is usually not even working n the V.5.
Only a slider in the game for the rumble intensity could solve that.

JonnyReDHeD
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Re: Rumble not working correctly with Cyborg V.5 and Battlefield 3

Post by JonnyReDHeD »

My xbox 360 controller does have a little more vibration in BF3 with and without xpadder, so you might well be correct that the cyborg being a larger controller with large motors might not be getting enough voltage. Makes sense. And yes with the cyborg v.5 i can have xpadder on or off, or just use xinput on or off and I now still get the same lower level of vibration. So I guess I can't improve what I have now and have to live with it. You'd think there would be more ways to access and control the vibration strength across games and controllers. At present I only have BF3 and the steam game Shattered Horizon installed.

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Re: Rumble not working correctly with Cyborg V.5 and Battlefield 3

Post by FARSTRIDER »

if you want a game with excessive rumble try ngc crazy taxi or blur(only found the 360 version to have heavy rumble & pc rumble not so much)

JonnyReDHeD
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Re: Rumble not working correctly with Cyborg V.5 and Battlefield 3

Post by JonnyReDHeD »

Well I get a good amount of vibration with my only other current game Steam: Shattered Horizon, more than BF3. Am just downloading Half-Life 2 - part2 as I've had it since day one release but somehow never got around to completing it. Also have a free code for Alien vs Predator so will give that a try. might even try CounterStrike for the first time for like 5-6 years.

It must be A BF3 thing, as I get a little more with Shattered Horizon. Will try Half-Life 2 part 2 later and something else.

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